Common sense wins out…

If you’ve read my last post you’ll see that I’ve been watching the inquest into the shooting of the violent armed robber, Robert Haines, whilst he was trying to relieve a bank of £105,000.

It seems that, in a sporadic fit of complete sensibility, the inquest and the IPCC have decided that the killing was completely lawful.

Well done on arriving at the only sensible conclusion to the whole affair.  Personally, I don’t think there should have been an inquest at all – the officer responsible should have been issued a medal for ridding the country of a prolific and dangerous criminal.

Following the inquest, Mr Haines’ brother Burt said: “I don’t agree with why he was there.

“I think he could have been wounded. To shoot him dead, I think is completely wrong.”

Naturally, the media are going to include a soundbite from the aggrieved criminal’s family.  I’m not sure where the confusion lies with Burt, though – his brother had planned the armed raid on the bank, turned up complete with balaclava and loaded shotgun, threatened staff with it, obtained £105,000 from them illegally, then discharged the shotgun at police officers whilst trying to make his escape.  What part of ‘caught red-handed’ is Burt failing to grasp?

As for the second part of his comment, well, that’s just about too ludicrous to even mention.  What would you prefer, Burt?  That your brother was ‘winged’, giving him plenty of time to fire off the second barrel of his gun and kill a police officer or an innocent member of the public?

From the minute the raid was executed, an irrevocable chain of events were set in motion that led to the demise of Burt’s brother.  Despite what Burt and the rest of his clan may think, the only person who had any control over what happened was the idiot behind the shotgun…

The Nationwide Building Society that was subject to the 'violent withdrawal'


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23 Responses to “Common sense wins out…”

  1. DaveM Says:

    When these blaggers go over the pavement , they know what happens if they get caught especially by armed officers , no sympathy : dangers of the job they choose to do.

  2. Adam Says:

    Criminal responsible for his own actions? Jesus, Kkop… it’s quite obvious that it’s society that failed the man. That’s quite the can of worms you’ve just opened.

    • kkop Says:

      Unfortunately, Adam, I suspect that what you have written in jest is exactly what a lot of otherwise sane-minded people out there actually believe…

  3. Adam Says:

    And on a slightly different note, do you suppose there are any other nation that would use the Human Rights Act as such a big stick to beat itself with?

    • kkop Says:

      I would love to say, “Absolutely unbelievable!” but I can’t bring myself to say it – it’s typical of this country, I’m afraid.

      The way it should be dealt with is like this:

      1) Pirates are criminals. They use guns, grenades, machetes and anything else they can lay their hands on to take over multi-million pound vessels and take their crews hostage whilst they extort millions of pounds in payouts from their countries of origin.

      2) Stop that prat Ross Kemp from swanning around with Somalis, putting across the ‘human face’ of piracy whilst trying to look ‘ard, and step up Naval patrols in the area.

      3) Fit out all cargo ships and tankers passing through the area with .50 caliber machine guns and sub-machine guns for the crew for personal protection. Post marines to each high-value tanker/cargo ship as personal protection.

      4) Post a couple of aircraft carriers there, with the help of the good ole US of A.

      5) Shoot and sink – on sight – any pirate vessels. No questions asked. Blow the scum out of the water and make sure to leave no survivors.

      6) Follow that up with bombing raids on all the dock towns and harbour areas that the pirates are known to work out of.

      Within the month, the piracy will stop. Simples. 😉

  4. Tony F Says:

    Justice, for a change, seems to have been done. Reluctantly. A

    As for ‘winging’ someone, methinks too many Westerns, and no real life. I was a marksman, (not a brilliant one though) and I certainly could not ‘wing’ someone. And If you missed, where is the round going to go?

    • kkop Says:

      I was worried about launching into a thesis on ballistics and hit probabilities for partial body targets, Tony F, but I figured the message of the post would be lost if I did. 😉

      Of course, ‘winging’ someone is almost impossible to do intentionally – except in the best of Hollywood-created mythology – which is why all firearms officers and pretty much anyone else sitting behind a firearm is taught to aim for centre of mass.

      Whilst talking about an unrelated incident but still involving firearms, a member of the public once asked me, “Why don’t you just shoot the gun out of their hands?”

      Unfortunately, with people thinking like that we’re going to be on to a loser every time when it comes to shooting fatalities.

      • Adam Says:

        Sadly, Hollywood is the point of reference for what the Police should be able to do, for far too many people.

        I once watched a friend of mine create a fairly respectable hole not much bigger than a beer mat, in an oil can at 300 yards with a rifle. But he had been a very good sniper in his day, and as he said “Of course, in real life, you never know which way the bugger is going to move.. and if you fuck up, you have a lot more to worry about than just looking like a tit…”

        As for where a bullet can go and the damage it can do after it hits something hard and curiously shaped, like any firearm you care to think of, you may as well play russian roulette with the civilians at stake.

      • RocketDodger Says:

        This reminds me of a job I worked on many moons ago and says a lot about the people allegedly in charge of Firearms Units in those days.

        Once upon a time a loon got on a ferry to France and, like you do, purchased a pump action shotgun and, of course, some ammo to go with it.

        On arrival in Dover he decided to walk down the A20 firing at anything that took his fancy. Firearms (obviously) were deployed.

        As said loon was approaching The Plough PH said fireams officers got a tad tetchy. The Plough was full of people having lunch etc and a massacre would look bad on their PDFs.

        Sooooo, they ask The Duty Inspector for permission to arm. As you would expect from someone who cares only about his next promotion the absolute tosser refuses!!!! So the guys decide to self arm and shoot Loon 12 times (from a distance of 100 metres). Only 7 hit and only 1 penetrates and puts him down (shot to the hip)

        Firearms look at their H&Ks with utter disbelief not knowing that the ammo they’re using was designed to be used within the confines of an aircraft fuselage and at a distance of anything over 6 foot has the stopping power of an angry gnat.

        Oh, and he was wearing ‘body armour’, cardboard wrapped with silver foil to keep ‘the rays out’

        As Inspector Gadget is so keen on saying, ‘You couldn’t make it up’

      • kkop Says:

        Be fair, RocketDodger, he was wearing a coat as well. You can’t expect police ammo to perform under strenuous conditions like that! 😉

      • RocketDodger Says:

        He was bleeding walking wounded the next day and discharged from hospital. Straight into custody

        And instead of issuing normal, 9mm parabellum they give the guys 5.56!!!!

  5. Tony F Says:

    Good point Adam, a bullet that has hit something, no matter what, will have it’s ballistics all ballisticked as it were. If you think that a .762 round from such an old favorite as an SLR could travel nearly 7 miles when in perfect nick, where is all that energy going to go? Just a thought, if a round got loose into a tank, carnage could ensue.

  6. busybizzie Says:

    Leaving the brothers daft idea aside, this case seems to have gone entirely the right way. What is this country coming to?

  7. RocketDodger Says:

    My family had dealings with the delightful Mr Haines. He beat the crap out of my son one night outside of a local nightclub (He owned a Security Company, surprise, surprise) and when Kent Plod arrived managed to convince them to arrest my son. On hearing the facts I advised the lad to make a complaint.

    I then suffered the indignity of having some total w@nker of an Inspector come round my home and tell me what ‘A fine upstanding member of the public’ said Mr Haines was.

    I was working in Iraq when I heard he had been shot by the Sweeney.

    How I laughed

  8. RocketDodger Says:

    Spookily enough, he was shot the day before he was due to appear in Court on a charge of GBH against the lad !!

  9. allcoppedout Says:

    The Incompetent Poodles of Constabulary Corruption tend to be quite good at justifying police killings, whether righteous or not. I’d shaft them in favour of regional PSDs with decisions on what to investigate in the hands of non-political civilians and cops chosen by lot from the ranks with more than 5 years’ service. I believe they should be considering the type of complaints in blogs like this as well as ones from the public. The IPCC is a failure all round and run by an arse who makes a fool of himself in public claiming they have reduced deaths in custody by half.
    We need to do something to get the bureaucracy of it out of the way and protect both sides. I know many complaints are utter crap, but I also know genuine ones are treated with disdain and chronic bias, as though coming from criminal shit or nutters.
    Many complaints against police are really complaints against our dismal politicians and piss poor legal system. We need to give cops more powers, see cases through to conviction quicker and put the scrote into forced work and bar them from living amongst other people as soon as they make any trouble.

  10. inspectorgadget Says:

    Reminds me of the famous Private Eye cover after the SAS took out three PIRA shit bags in the 1980’s.

    SAS man 1

    “Why did you shoot Daniel Savage 16 times in the head?”

    SAS man 2

    “Yeah, sorry about that, I ran out of bullets”

  11. Adam Says:

    Again, not entirely relevant, but worth a read and nicely encapsulates just what (amongst many) is wrong.

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